Nina G on Stuttering Representation in TV, Film, and the Media

Transcript

Maya Chupkov:

A number of you have reached out and asked how you can support the show. After some consideration, we've decided to launch the proud stutter membership program. While all of our episodes are free, producing the show is not and Your support will help keep the show going and reach more people who stutter. So far we've invested a lot of our own time and money to make this a quality show, head to K Oh, dash f i.com/proud stutter To make a donation or sign up for the membership program. Perks of the proud stutter membership program include one on one sessions with me shout outs and features coaching workshops, proud stutter swag, and more. Our first fundraising campaign is to reach $500. These funds will go into production planning of season two, which will start in a few months. Stay in the loop though because during our break in between seasons, we will be creating content putting on events and releasing episodes here and there. Our last bit of news, this episode will be Cynthia's last as co host of proud stutter. While I am so sorry to see you go Cynthia, I am wishing you all the best in your future endeavors. It has been a pleasure to have you as my co host for season one. Thank you so much for helping me start this journey and for showing the world what a true ally ship looks like for the stuttering community. I'm Maya Chupkov. And I'm a woman who stutters.

Cynthia Chin:

And I'm Cynthia chin, Maya's longtime friend, and I know nothing about stuttering.

Maya:

And this is proud stutter, a podcast about stuttering and embracing verbal diversity and an effort to change how we talk about it one conversation at a time. Welcome back to proud stutter. Today is our season finale. And we have a very special guests from the stuttering and community. I'm sure all of you know her because she's a celebrity. I'm so excited to welcome Nina G. The Bay Area's only female stuttering standard comedian. She's also an author and a professional speaker. Welcome, Mina.

Nina G:

Thank you, it's an honor to be on the season the finale. So thank you for having me. Of course,

Maya:

I couldn't think of a better person to end such a fantastic season, our first season of proud stutter. I'm really interested in learning more about your activism around stuttering and how you use your platform, both as a comedian and an author and a speaker as a way to stand up for those who stutter and have disabilities in in, in in general.

Nina:

I'm going into my 12th year of comedy. And part of what I wanted to do aside from doing comedy, which was a lifelong dream and passion and that and all of that, I also wanted to integrate a level of stuttering advocacy and activism and that both in just like getting the stuttering experience out there, especially from a woman's point of view, and not making it as the stutter is the butt of the joke. But instead, the weird situations that you get into because of your stutter and the reactions from others and the barriers that you might experience. And trying to normalize, I guess would be the word trying to like just get people to know that experience because the way that I feel is like yeah, he you can have all of the civil rights laws in the world like the Americans with Disabilities Act. It doesn't change the hearts and the minds. And I think that people need to understand our experiences. Now, that is one aspect another aspect, especially working with the British stammering Association, that this year, they lead a campaign to get stuttering voices out in the world and because You know, so many times, it's like you hear about us the second month of May, and you hear about us on October 22. And that's it. And so their goal was to get us on TV, get us on the radio, get us in front of people to share our stereo voices, whether we are a paleontologist, whether we're a stand up comic, and it doesn't have to be just on stuttering, but it's on whatever we want to talk about.

Maya:

Yeah. So can we talk about stuttering and pop culture for a second? Because comedy, such a great way to change hearts and minds? I think humor it really taps in to those emotions, I think in a really unique way. So like, there are ton of horrible examples of stuttering portrayals out there. There's Billy Madison, there's the office episode where Stanley and and Miss Lee yells at Michael like, Did I stutter? Are there? Are there like positive examples out there? And why is popular culture and comedy so important for shifting the narrative around stuttering?

Nina:

Yes, I think predominantly the popular culture, things are mostly not great. It's my favorite. horrible example of stuttering is Elvis Presley's last film, and the Elvis chick for that film was married to Tyler Moore. And she played a nun who was a speech therapist, okay, so and and of course, Elvis was the doctor who makes the nun possibly question whether or not she's going to leave the convent because Elvis the hot doctor, she she, she falls in love with him. Now in this film, first of all, Elvis cures a little girl's autism by just hugging her. Because Elvis is love is that strong. So there's that, but then there is a stuttering guy in it. And it just gets worse. If these stuttering guy, young guy, he is being seen by marrying Tyler Moore. And he holds up a knife and he's like, I feel powerful. And you know the stuttering that we always see in popular culture. It's always so awful. I don't know who they watch thinking that stuttering is oh, wait, it's not like that. We stutter in so many different ways. And we know that your acting is bad by it how badly used to stutter. So there's that anyway, at the end, the stutter tries to put some moves on to Mary Tyler Moore, and threatens to kill her. And they have to end and then Elvis has to come and save the day punches out the steder. So okay, so that is my favorite worst example. Um, but you know, in, in a lot of movies, like the person who stutters, either kills himself, and it's always him.

Cynthia:

That's so true. I never noticed

Nina:

or they die at the end, they die because they get run over by something or like, like something happens. So you know, lots of and that's why, Porky Pig, I always say, Porky Pig growing up was my best example of a person who says custard, which, you know, when a little girl sees a role model as a cartoon pig who doesn't wear pants like that's, that's not really a great example. So this is why we need more. And I think the more positive ones I think my favorite one is from the movie. Rockets science. Have you guys seen that?

Cynthia:

No. Nope. Have not heard of it. Oh, is that a John Hughes movie?

Nina:

No, but it kind of looks like it could? Cuz cuz it is a it's a teenage story. And, um, and it's about a kid who joins the debate team. And he stutters in just about that, that experience. could come in of age kind of thing. So that's my favorite example. And then like a year after that we have the King speech. wonderful and great. Had some misinformation in there. I like that because it normalizes speech like Yeah. Like you're just like everyone else, you're still a rich dude. So the King's speech great in lovely, great that it was written by a person who stutters. But nonetheless, can we get someone in between the dude who dies at the end end of the film, and a king?

Cynthia:

So, if you were to write a movie or a TV show, what would that look like in terms of the portrayal of a person who stutters?

Nina:

So I went to go see in Branson, Missouri, me and my friend Gina, and so we went to the most Moses play, because like, there's a big Christian king community there. So we paid 50 bucks each to go to the mother Moses play and we're like, okay, Moses better frickin stutter. And be ingenious stutters to, um, until we go. And he stutters when he talks to the burning bush, where he says, But but but but God, I am not whatever the word it's I'm not fluid of speech or my tongue. I don't know what he said, I am Catholic, and we never open up the Bible. And so he says that in any stutters there, then he then he gives this big speech to the Pharaoh, and he is totally fluent. Going back to what I would want to see, I would have wanted to see a stuttering actor in that role. That's what I want to see is authentic stuttering parts played by people who stutter, along with like, hey, here is a lawyer, who happens to stutter because the actor says cutters, not an NC and this actually kind of happened in my cousin Vinnie. But it was played for laughs instead of playing to know normalize. So making it so it's just part of everyday life along with that, in reality shows, so much of it is focused on us being fluent, like, oh, the kid sings, and now he's not stuttering, because he thinks yet it's frickin science. So I would also just like to see like the net net narrative changed, that you could just talk the way you talk, you don't have to talk like everyone else.

Maya:

That reminds me, because a lot of celebrities talk about their childhood stutter. And yet we never see those celebrities actually stutter. And it's so hard for me to relate to those stories. Because they're famous. They're slow celebrities, and I never hear that them stutter. I think a lot of people who stutter are trained to hide it to fit into society. But rarely do we see people like you, who unapologetic who are public figures and are unapologetically stuttering. And I think the more of those figures we have, the more people who have been hiding that their stutter their whole lives will start coming out of the shadows.

Nina:

What I've noticed in doing comedy, at least in the San Francisco scene, like you know, comics can be they can be assholes about so many things they could pretty much like the initial response to my sister is sometimes not a novelty. But it's a one place where like I am where it's like my standard leads, and is forgotten.

Cynthia:

That reminds me of something that you said in a recent interview, you said comedy is the only place where I feel completely free with my stutter. Is that kind of along the same lines where you, you know, you you introduce yourself with the stutter, and then you're able to be you because you've, you've been able to, you know, free yourself of that.

Nina:

Yeah, no, I think I can handle my stutter in the way that is most authentic to me in this situation. And and I talked about this in my books was cut or interrupted, where, like, if you get a micro aggression on five, you're always like, okay, like, did they do that? Did they not? How should I handle it? It's very easy. ambiguous but when someone tells me like once I was introduced to someone in comedy, and I said my name I said, my, my name is Nina. Just like that. And the guy guy I was talking to ask me is that Nina with five ends? And I was like, No, that's Nina with two ends and I gave him the finger on both hands. And he got the message. And any later on he he apologized. Also, he apologized after I did my whole set. And I directed all of my jerky stuttering jokes at him. So he so he just felt awful.

Cynthia:

What a great comeback.

Maya:

Amazing. That's amazing.

Nina:

I was so bad. I was so proud. I'm so proud. Yeah, and that's where like, like, the thing is, it's like nobody really gets away with heckling me about stuttering, because I kind of feel like I you know, I've been so stuttering since I was eight. So it's been 40 years. And I like I feel I have a black belt in defending mum, mum, mum, mum, mum, mum, mum, mum, mum myself. And so I'm just like the it's the guy who has a black belt in Kung Fu and he walks down the street hoping, hoping that someone attacks him, because he's just going to go off on him and use all of his kung fu. I have some much that I have built into me and about how to handle these things. It's like, yeah, just come at me and find out what it'll be like when you heckle me.

Maya:

Do you think we're on the right track to eventually getting to a place where stuttering is being talked about more? And it's becoming destigmatize? Like, are we on the right path?

Nina:

Well, I discovered the broader stuttering community in like 1989 90. So that's been a long time. And so back then I think it was just like, being able to gather was a big thing. And then also protesting things that weren't cool. Like there was a sandwich shop in Oakland, that a Stetter had gone into to order a pastrami sandwich didn't go so well. And he was made fun of and the NS P which was the National Stuttering project, which then turned into the net. Net, National Stuttering Association, I think it's important to get to the kids because what happens is the kids find themselves early. I mean, I didn't know about the NSP till I was in high school, and then I took a big long break, and then came back to it. And like, developmentally, you need the stuttering Kay, community throughout your entire life. Like I thought when I was 19, I was like, oh, okay, I met a teacher who stuttered. I think I can do that, too. I ended up not teaching, but it was for classroom management, not because of speech. And, and like, and I was like, okay, I'm okay, on my job. So I'm good. No, I wasn't okay. Because all of the internalized stigma that I had impacted me in relationships, and I think women especially, we are socialized to make ourselves small. And when you stutter, you get extra small. And, and that's why my book is called stutter interrupted, because I wasn't only being interrupted by other people. But I was interrupting myself.

Cynthia:

You mentioned that woman already kind of get talked over. And then as a female stutter, I just want to ask, like, have you noticed any patterns with like, women in particular, in terms of being interrupted and kind of like making them shrink even more in comparison to men?

Nina:

Yeah, I mean, I can only speak from my own experience, which was like, that was one of the main things that that I like, like, I wasn't even being interrupted. I was just like, holding back. And that holding back was like, Yeah, I had dated a guy who stuttered. And that was so important to me to have that experience because I learned like, I was like, Oh, I wouldn't flirt in this way. If I was with a fluent guy, and I hadn't done that with My ex of 10 years because I was holding back as if my stutter was ugly, as if my stutter like, like, you know, it's that there's that whole iceberg thing from Shin. And for me, and I think this, especially like Italian American Catholic women tend to have some guilt. And like I would feel guilty about having other people sit through my stutter, as if it was rude to have them. Wait,

Maya:

I bet when you are doing these interviews, you get asked a lot of the same questions a lot. So I'm wondering, what question are you tired of getting asked? And then to what is a question that you wish that interviewers would ask you more?

Nina:

I think the thing that, like, it's not, like, a lot of times people will ask me, What's it like to be an inspiration? And what I felt such an

Cynthia:

awkward question, like, oh, well, you know, I just love inspiring the youth, like, no one is ever gonna say that. Yeah.

Nina:

And what am I jokes in my act? And this is more when I go clean? And it's a it's a disability audience? And the joke is, how many did disabled people does it take to screw in a little light bulb? And the answer is one to screw it in and five able bodied people to say, you are such an inspiration. Because that's a really common experience we all have is like, Oh, you're such an inspiration for like waking up, you're such an inspiration for like doing this simple thing. It's like, okay, if you really dig deep and really look at my life, and you're inspired to change yourself, I'm cool with being an inspiration.

Maya:

So our last question is about a book that you released in February 2022. And you co wrote it with OJ Patterson. And the book is called Bay Area stand up comedy, a humorous history. And I'm wondering if you can give folks a little summary of what it's about.

Nina:

Thank you for asking that. I'm really excited about the book, I wanted to be a stand up comic since I was 11. Dream died because of the speech. Like when I turned 17, I was like, I don't see anybody who's a comic who stutters, especially a woman, I think that dream is just gonna go away now. And I'll focus in on something else. And that's where the myth of memoir comes in. Because that is the story about finding so self acceptance, and starting comedy. Now, the history book, though, really goes back to my love of comedy in, in focusing in on that, in looking at stand up in the bay area from like, 1860, when the first like, there's the very first stand up comic in the United States it because stand up is a it is an American art form. And the first comic came to San Francisco because the audience's kind of sucked in the East because there was a war, this civil war. So things were a bit grim. Things were a little bit more happening here in in San Francisco, and he loved the audiences. Audiences were great for a long time in San Francisco. And then there was the big change in stand up, which happened in the 1950s where Mort Sahl in the hungry I basically changed modern comedy. So the book explores the clubs, the comics, the scenes, really focused from the 1950s into the pandemic. And you can tell that, you know, there are little things in there that a disability activist co wrote this because you learn that Mario Savio, the father of the free speech movement in Berkeley, was a person who stuttered and how frickin cool is that a father of the Free Speech Free Speech Movement? And so you learn little things about that. Yes. So you had to slide in those things.

Maya:

Oh my gosh, that's so exciting. Where can listeners find your book? You can find

Nina:

it anywhere like like these books will be sold. But both stutterer interrupted, and Bay Area stand up calm. You will be sold everywhere.

Maya:

Great. And we'll also have all the the things Nina G just mentioned in our show notes. So we'll link to all of that. And yeah, Nina, thank you so much for being with us and Sela braiding the season finale of proud stutter with us we couldn't I'm just I'm just so happy that we got to have this conversation. And from one fan, I'm just like, I'm so happy that we're we're friends and that we're we had to do all these cool things together.

Nina:

Yeah, no. And thank you, and congratulations on this. It was so great to be at your opening on on on October 22. It was great to see so many people coming out and supporting you and the cause.

Cynthia:

Yeah, thank you so much, Nina, it was great to have you for our finale. Because, you know, we've we've interviewed so many people over the course of this season. And, you know, everyone says that they had dreams that died because of their stutter. And it's just, I mean, you're such an inspiration. Nobody really, really though. Yeah, no, I mean, I think people are going to listen to this and think, you know, she did it so I can to like why I mean, to a certain extent, it's like, it's only you that's holding yourself back. And I think you exemplify that idea.

Nina:

Thank you. And it's just that, like, those are things that you challenge constantly, because it's not like, I don't wake up sometimes. And like, I don't want to order the pepperoni pizza, and I make my husband do it. So there are certain things like that, like this is an ongoing process, and it's going to be our entire lives. But it's because of support and community like the one that you have here, that those are the reminders and the tuneups that, that, that, that that that we need all the time. So I appreciate you having this as a platform.

Maya:

And that's it for this episode. I'm Maya. And I'm Cynthia, and you've been listening to proud stutter. This episode of proud stutter was produced by me Maya Chupkov

Cynthia:

and edited by me, Cynthia chin. Our music was composed by a gusto, Denise and our artwork by Omar, Ezekiel and Noah Chupkov.

Maya:

If you have an idea, or want to be part of future episodes, find us on Twitter at proud stutter. You can also find us at www dot proud stutter.com

Cynthia:

drop us a note or share a voice memo. What's your stuttering story? What topics would you like us to cover? And what are you curious about

Maya:

and if you liked the show, you can leave us a review wherever you are listening to this podcast.

Cynthia:

More importantly, tell your friends to listen to

Maya:

until we meet again. Thanks for listening. Be proud and be you